So yea, I may have enthroned Steve King on the Throne of Racism, but yet another Throne was open, the Throne of Islamophobia. I say was, because that seat is now filled
The other night FOX news "religion correspondent" Lauren Green interviewed a religion scholar named Reza Aslan who just wrote a book on the life of Jesus.....and well you can see the results for yourself (as well as my snarky comments naturally)
Green: Reza Aslan was a Christian but converted back to the faith of his forefathers, Islam. He has now written a book about Jesus. The book has become controversial, as it calls into question some of the core tenets of Christianity. The book is called “Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.” And Reza joins me now from Los Angeles. Welcome!
Aslan: Thank you for having me.
Green: This is an interesting book. Now, I want to clarify: You are a Muslim, so why did you write a book about the founder of Christianity?
Aslan: Well, to be clear, I am a scholar of religions with four degrees, including one in the New Testament, and fluency in biblical Greek, who has been studying the origins of Christianity for two decades, who also just happens to be a Muslim. So it’s not that I’m just some Muslim writing about Jesus. I am an expert with a Ph.D. in the history of religions. I have been obsessed with Jesus…
Green: But it still begs the question: Why would you be interested in the founder of Christianity?
You know what, i gotta be honest, I think I'm on Ms. Green's side here. People should never ever attempt things outside their experience. I mean an expert in Religion writing about a religion he's not a member of makes no sense at all.
In fact its almost as illogical as a Beauty Queen trying to become a reporter. The Beauty Queen should just stick to her own area of experience.
By the way, would this be a bad time to mention that Lauren Green was Miss Minnesota, and the 3rd place runner up in the Miss America Pageant in 1985?
On the other hand, Ms. Green is 55 years old. So she's definitely still using her experience at looking hot as hell especially for her age. |
Anyways, back to the interview
Aslan: That’s actually not what Islam claims about Jesus. My book about Jesus overturns pretty much everything that Islam thinks about Jesus as well. And to be clear, I just want to emphasize this one more time. I am an historian, I am a Ph.D. in the history of religions. This isn’t a Muslim opinion. This is an academic work of history, not about the Christ or about Christianity, for that matter. It’s about an historical man who walked the earth 2,000 years ago in a land that the Romans called Palestine.
Yea......That first sentence kinda burns. Shows the difference between a real religious scholar and a pastor (Dickerson) that only knows one religion. And the ultimate irony is, by Ms. Green's own definition, Aslan has to be right and Dickerson has to be a moron. Because you can only be an expert in your own religion and Dickerson isnt a Muslim so knows not of what he speaks. If he does, the entire premise of the interview is flawed.
So yea, you cite your own expert and then your own rules turn him into an idiot.....OOPS
And still note the total lack of self awareness of the irony of her own position. That actually does take serious talent.
Green: Why would a Democrat want to promote democracy by writing about a Republican?
This is actually my favorite line of this entire interview, even if is also the least relevant to anything.
The first time I read it I passed it off as the usual "Republican Good, Democrat Bad" bullshit that FOX always spews. But then I realized I missed something.
Again according to her own premise, the Democrat who is writing about the Republican in this situation would be writing how the Republican was bad.
So apparently even writing bad things about Republicans spread Democracy. It's almost as if just writing the word "Republican" increases democracy around the world.
And honestly I hope shes right. I mean as often as I write the word Republican in this blog I have to be responsible for at least 3% of the democracy on this planet, even if I do usually follow it with words like "idiot" "moron" "bigot" "racist" "fucktard" or even occasionally "racist fucktard".
GO ME!!!!
Aslan: Ma’am, may I just finish my sentence for a moment, please? I think that the fundamental problem here is that you’re assuming that I have some sort of faith-based bitas in this work that I write. I write about Judaism, I write about Hinduism, I write about Christianity, I write about Islam. My job as a scholar of religions with a PhD in the subject is to write about religions and one of the religions and one of the religions I’ve written about is the one that was launched by Jesus.
Translation: I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore your last comment, its irrelevant and thinking about it too long give me a headache. And instead I'm going to go back to pointing out how your original assumption is asinine.
Green: You’re not just writing about a religion from a point of view of an observer. I mean, the thing about it is that…
She's actually right. I mean he's a practitioner of religion, so he cant be a detached observer. But then again so is she.
Which means, as the one and only atheist in this conversation both of you shut up and let me tell you about Jesus.
Oh wait I cant do that. Because the premise of this interview assumes you can only talk about your own experience, therefore you actually dont want an observer. Unless you get shown up and panic like Ms. Green.
Aslan: Ma’am, my information is not different from theirs at all. I’m afraid it sounds like you haven’t actually read my book or seen what I’ve said about the resurrection or about Jesus or about his claims. I think you might be surprised in what I say. And there have been thousands of scholars who have written about this very same topic. Many who disagree with me, many who agree with me. That’s the thing about scholarship, is that it’s a debate about ancient history and I am one of those people making that debate. I think it’s unfair to just simply assume because of my particular faith background that there is some agenda on this book. That would be like saying that a Christian who writes about Muhammad is by definition not able to do so because he has some bias against it. And frankly every book, almost every book that’s out there is by Christians…
Remember what I said way back about Foreshadowing? yea well you just saw some more of it....
Green: He can do so but I believe that you’ve been on several programs and never disclosed that you’re a Muslim, and I think that’s an interest in full disclosure.
And in about 11 more words your about to see Ms. Green actually prove that yes, being a reporter is well outside her personal experience as a Beauty Queen.
Aslan: Ma’am, the second page of my book says I’m a Muslim. Every single interview I have ever done on TV or on print says I’m a Muslim. You may not be familiar with me, but I’m actually quite a prominent Muslim thinker in the United States. I’ve written a number of books about Islam. It’s just simply incorrect to say that media isn’t saying that I’m a Muslim. I would actually encourage you to actually try to find media that doesn’t mention my biography, which by the way, again, is on the second page of the book.
And BOOM!. There is is. First sentence. Yea, she didnt read the book as Mr. Aslan kept guessing at. Which actually explains a lot. Like why the only question about the book she asked about the book itself loosely translated to "so tell me about the book". It also explains why all the criticisms she had were from 3rd parties. It's hard to critique something you dont know anything about.
Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh. Maybe she actually did read the first page. I mean that is kinda standard operating procedure at FOX:
Aslan: Because it’s my job as an academic. I am a professor of religion, including the New Testament. That’s what I do for a living, actually. It would be like asking a Christian why they would write a book about Islam. I’m not sure about that. But honestly, I’ve been obsessed with Jesus for 20 years. I’ve been studying his life and his work and the origins of Christianity both in an academic environment and on a personal level for about two decades. Just to be clear, this is not some attack on Christianity. My mother is a Christian, my wife is a Christian, my brother-in-law is an evangelical pastor. Anyone who thinks this book is an attack on Christianity has not read it yet.
Ok folks. I want you to pay attention to that last sentence. It wasnt meant this way but its actually a very good example of the literary device called foreshadowing......
Green: I want to read you some quotes from some people who are criticizing you , one from John Dickerson, who has written an op-ed piece on FoxNews.com. And he says, It’s not an historian’s report on Jesus. It’s an educated Muslim’s opinion about Jesus. He says its conclusions are long-held Islamic claims — namely that Jesus was a zealous-prophet type who didn’t claim to be God.
Green: I want to read you some quotes from some people who are criticizing you , one from John Dickerson, who has written an op-ed piece on FoxNews.com. And he says, It’s not an historian’s report on Jesus. It’s an educated Muslim’s opinion about Jesus. He says its conclusions are long-held Islamic claims — namely that Jesus was a zealous-prophet type who didn’t claim to be God.
Translation: I dont actually know enough about the book to have an opinion, so let me repeat what other people have said. (By the way, no this isnt the foreshadowing I was talking about....keep reading)
Aslan: That’s actually not what Islam claims about Jesus. My book about Jesus overturns pretty much everything that Islam thinks about Jesus as well. And to be clear, I just want to emphasize this one more time. I am an historian, I am a Ph.D. in the history of religions. This isn’t a Muslim opinion. This is an academic work of history, not about the Christ or about Christianity, for that matter. It’s about an historical man who walked the earth 2,000 years ago in a land that the Romans called Palestine.
Yea......That first sentence kinda burns. Shows the difference between a real religious scholar and a pastor (Dickerson) that only knows one religion. And the ultimate irony is, by Ms. Green's own definition, Aslan has to be right and Dickerson has to be a moron. Because you can only be an expert in your own religion and Dickerson isnt a Muslim so knows not of what he speaks. If he does, the entire premise of the interview is flawed.
So yea, you cite your own expert and then your own rules turn him into an idiot.....OOPS
Which is probably why Ms. Green switched to plan B, which actually shockingly are at least pseudo journalist....
Green: How are your findings different from what Islam actually believes about Jesus?
Aslan: Well, Islam doesn’t believe that Jesus was crucified, first of all. Islam believes in the virgin birth. Jesus was most definitely crucified. And my book does question the historicity of the virgin birth. So again, I mean, I know that we’ve mentioned this three times now. I’m not sure what my faith happens to do with my 20 years of academic study of the New Testament.
Green: How are your findings different from what Islam actually believes about Jesus?
Aslan: Well, Islam doesn’t believe that Jesus was crucified, first of all. Islam believes in the virgin birth. Jesus was most definitely crucified. And my book does question the historicity of the virgin birth. So again, I mean, I know that we’ve mentioned this three times now. I’m not sure what my faith happens to do with my 20 years of academic study of the New Testament.
Ok, on the one hand the point of the book is actually more about the difference between what Christians believe about Jesus and what history shows us....but that said, thats actually a pretty interesting, if not relevant question.
Green: I’m just trying to bring out what some others are claiming at this point. And I want you to answer to those claims…
Aslan: Well, it’s pretty clear that there are those that do not like the book, who are are unhappy with its general arguments. That’s perfectly fine. I’m more than willing to talk about the arguments of the book itself, but I do think it’s perhaps a little bit strange that rather than debating the arguments of the book, we are debating the right of the scholar to actually write it.
True enough. I mean lets be honest, she has yet to ask him a single question about the book beyond, "but wait your not christian WTF?"
But maybe there's a reason for that? Keep reading and we will find out....but until we do, Ms. Green reverts to plan A (again being well outside her experience of being totally bangable she really doesnt know what else she can do) of discrediting the author.....the very issue he just said misses the point of the book.
Green: Well, let me give you some other quotes from Dr. William Lane Craig, who is a Christian philosopher and theologian. He’s written a lot of books and done a lot of debates about science and religion. He said, Reza Aslan merely repeats bygone claims about the historical Jesus that have since been abandoned and refuted. What do you say to that?
Aslan: Well, I would disagree. I have 100 pages of notes and about a thousand books that I use in my discussions, and of course, in any scholarly discussion of Jesus, as with any discussion of any ancient figure, there are going to be widespread differences, but my 100 pages of endnotes cites every scholar who disagrees with me and every scholar who agrees with me. And I would suggest that anyone who actually wants to comment on the argument of the book read not just the book but also the endnotes to figure out where my scholarly argument about Jesus comes from. And I’m sure you’re going to find people who disagree with me.
Green: We’re not just talking about just people who disagree with you; Scholars — many scholars — disagree with you as well.
Yea ok, everyone caught that right? She literally just took the very thing he just said and said it back to him and thinks somehow shes made a valid point he didnt just answer.
Anyone else think she could be replaced by a trained parrot at this point? assuming of course the parrot was a Muslim so it could actually report on Islam.
Aslan: Absolutely….
Translation: This woman is a fucking idiot.....I just said the same thing she did.
Green: I want to get to the heart of…What are your conclusions about Jesus?
Aslan: Well, my conclusions about Jesus start by placing him in the world in which he lived. So I start with one fundamental truth that everyone agrees on with Jesus and that was that he was crucified. You have to understand that crucifixion in first-century Palestine was a punishment that Rome reserved exclusively for crimes against the state, like sedition or rebellion or treason or insurrection. The thieves who were crucified alongside Jesus were not thieves. The Greek word “lestis” means “bandit.” And “bandit” was the most common term in Jesus’s time for an insurrectionist. What I say is that if you know nothing else about Jesus except that he was crucified, you know enough to understand what a troublemaker this guy must have been. The movement that he started was such a threat to the political stability of the empire that they actually had him arrested, tortured and killed for it. So I start with that fundamental fact, and then I take the claims of the gospels, as every single biblical scholar for 200 years has done, and look at them in light of the history of this world that we know. And what’s interesting about Jesus’s world is that we know a lot about it, thanks to the Romans, who were very good at documentation. And the picture that arises from this is a real political revolutionary who took on the religious and political powers of his time on behalf of the poor and the meek, the dispossessed, the marginalized, who sacrificed himself in his cause for those who couldn’t stand up for themselves and whose death ultimately launched the greatest religion in the world.
Holy shit! a legitimate question about the book itself. And an actual journalist one too. And she let him give a full answer. Maybe this interview can finally be saved and start actually getting somewhere.
Green: My question, yeah, I wanted to ask — actually there’s another chat coming, and I wanted to get this on before we end this interview. [A critic] just says so your book is written with clear bias and you’re trying to say it’s academic. That’s like having a Democrat writing a book about why Reagan wasn’t a good Republican. It just doesn’t work. What do you say to that?
Aslan: It would be like a Democrat with a PhD in Reagan who has been studying his life and history for two decades writing a book about Reagan. Again, I think that it’s unfair.
Green: I’m just trying to bring out what some others are claiming at this point. And I want you to answer to those claims…
Aslan: Well, it’s pretty clear that there are those that do not like the book, who are are unhappy with its general arguments. That’s perfectly fine. I’m more than willing to talk about the arguments of the book itself, but I do think it’s perhaps a little bit strange that rather than debating the arguments of the book, we are debating the right of the scholar to actually write it.
True enough. I mean lets be honest, she has yet to ask him a single question about the book beyond, "but wait your not christian WTF?"
But maybe there's a reason for that? Keep reading and we will find out....but until we do, Ms. Green reverts to plan A (again being well outside her experience of being totally bangable she really doesnt know what else she can do) of discrediting the author.....the very issue he just said misses the point of the book.
Green: Well, let me give you some other quotes from Dr. William Lane Craig, who is a Christian philosopher and theologian. He’s written a lot of books and done a lot of debates about science and religion. He said, Reza Aslan merely repeats bygone claims about the historical Jesus that have since been abandoned and refuted. What do you say to that?
Aslan: Well, I would disagree. I have 100 pages of notes and about a thousand books that I use in my discussions, and of course, in any scholarly discussion of Jesus, as with any discussion of any ancient figure, there are going to be widespread differences, but my 100 pages of endnotes cites every scholar who disagrees with me and every scholar who agrees with me. And I would suggest that anyone who actually wants to comment on the argument of the book read not just the book but also the endnotes to figure out where my scholarly argument about Jesus comes from. And I’m sure you’re going to find people who disagree with me.
Green: We’re not just talking about just people who disagree with you; Scholars — many scholars — disagree with you as well.
Yea ok, everyone caught that right? She literally just took the very thing he just said and said it back to him and thinks somehow shes made a valid point he didnt just answer.
Anyone else think she could be replaced by a trained parrot at this point? assuming of course the parrot was a Muslim so it could actually report on Islam.
Aslan: Absolutely….
Translation: This woman is a fucking idiot.....I just said the same thing she did.
Green: I want to get to the heart of…What are your conclusions about Jesus?
Aslan: Well, my conclusions about Jesus start by placing him in the world in which he lived. So I start with one fundamental truth that everyone agrees on with Jesus and that was that he was crucified. You have to understand that crucifixion in first-century Palestine was a punishment that Rome reserved exclusively for crimes against the state, like sedition or rebellion or treason or insurrection. The thieves who were crucified alongside Jesus were not thieves. The Greek word “lestis” means “bandit.” And “bandit” was the most common term in Jesus’s time for an insurrectionist. What I say is that if you know nothing else about Jesus except that he was crucified, you know enough to understand what a troublemaker this guy must have been. The movement that he started was such a threat to the political stability of the empire that they actually had him arrested, tortured and killed for it. So I start with that fundamental fact, and then I take the claims of the gospels, as every single biblical scholar for 200 years has done, and look at them in light of the history of this world that we know. And what’s interesting about Jesus’s world is that we know a lot about it, thanks to the Romans, who were very good at documentation. And the picture that arises from this is a real political revolutionary who took on the religious and political powers of his time on behalf of the poor and the meek, the dispossessed, the marginalized, who sacrificed himself in his cause for those who couldn’t stand up for themselves and whose death ultimately launched the greatest religion in the world.
Holy shit! a legitimate question about the book itself. And an actual journalist one too. And she let him give a full answer. Maybe this interview can finally be saved and start actually getting somewhere.
Green: My question, yeah, I wanted to ask — actually there’s another chat coming, and I wanted to get this on before we end this interview. [A critic] just says so your book is written with clear bias and you’re trying to say it’s academic. That’s like having a Democrat writing a book about why Reagan wasn’t a good Republican. It just doesn’t work. What do you say to that?
Aslan: It would be like a Democrat with a PhD in Reagan who has been studying his life and history for two decades writing a book about Reagan. Again, I think that it’s unfair.
No wait nevermind. The legitimate journalism is over. We now return to your regularly scheduled Christian Beauty Queen turned Reporter on Islam wonders why people reach outside their personal experience. Not to mention she is doing so on a network that has a Republican bias and spends its whole day explaining why Obama, whos a democrat, is also a bad president. She just said "it just doesnt work" when you do that.
And still note the total lack of self awareness of the irony of her own position. That actually does take serious talent.
Green: Why would a Democrat want to promote democracy by writing about a Republican?
This is actually my favorite line of this entire interview, even if is also the least relevant to anything.
The first time I read it I passed it off as the usual "Republican Good, Democrat Bad" bullshit that FOX always spews. But then I realized I missed something.
Again according to her own premise, the Democrat who is writing about the Republican in this situation would be writing how the Republican was bad.
So apparently even writing bad things about Republicans spread Democracy. It's almost as if just writing the word "Republican" increases democracy around the world.
And honestly I hope shes right. I mean as often as I write the word Republican in this blog I have to be responsible for at least 3% of the democracy on this planet, even if I do usually follow it with words like "idiot" "moron" "bigot" "racist" "fucktard" or even occasionally "racist fucktard".
GO ME!!!!
Aslan: Ma’am, may I just finish my sentence for a moment, please? I think that the fundamental problem here is that you’re assuming that I have some sort of faith-based bitas in this work that I write. I write about Judaism, I write about Hinduism, I write about Christianity, I write about Islam. My job as a scholar of religions with a PhD in the subject is to write about religions and one of the religions and one of the religions I’ve written about is the one that was launched by Jesus.
Translation: I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore your last comment, its irrelevant and thinking about it too long give me a headache. And instead I'm going to go back to pointing out how your original assumption is asinine.
Green: You’re not just writing about a religion from a point of view of an observer. I mean, the thing about it is that…
She's actually right. I mean he's a practitioner of religion, so he cant be a detached observer. But then again so is she.
Which means, as the one and only atheist in this conversation both of you shut up and let me tell you about Jesus.
Oh wait I cant do that. Because the premise of this interview assumes you can only talk about your own experience, therefore you actually dont want an observer. Unless you get shown up and panic like Ms. Green.
Aslan: Why would you say that?
Green: …you’re promoting yourself as a scholar and I’ve interviewed scholars who have written books on the resurrection, on the real Jesus and who are looking at the same information that you’re saying. To say that your information is somehow different from theirs is really not being honest here.
2 things. One, um the real Jesus who is the subject of this book wasnt resurrected. People dont do that. That would be the religious Jesus. I guess sometimes even in your own personal experience, you can be proven a moron.
Second. Actually yea, as Mr. Aslan is about to point out, taking the same facts and drawing differing conclusions is kinda EXACTLY the way academic and historical scholarship work.
But then again, props for actually doing a really good job proving your key point Ms. Green. Clearly you are well outside your personal experience and therefore have no clue at all what your talking about.
Green: …you’re promoting yourself as a scholar and I’ve interviewed scholars who have written books on the resurrection, on the real Jesus and who are looking at the same information that you’re saying. To say that your information is somehow different from theirs is really not being honest here.
2 things. One, um the real Jesus who is the subject of this book wasnt resurrected. People dont do that. That would be the religious Jesus. I guess sometimes even in your own personal experience, you can be proven a moron.
Second. Actually yea, as Mr. Aslan is about to point out, taking the same facts and drawing differing conclusions is kinda EXACTLY the way academic and historical scholarship work.
But then again, props for actually doing a really good job proving your key point Ms. Green. Clearly you are well outside your personal experience and therefore have no clue at all what your talking about.
Aslan: Ma’am, my information is not different from theirs at all. I’m afraid it sounds like you haven’t actually read my book or seen what I’ve said about the resurrection or about Jesus or about his claims. I think you might be surprised in what I say. And there have been thousands of scholars who have written about this very same topic. Many who disagree with me, many who agree with me. That’s the thing about scholarship, is that it’s a debate about ancient history and I am one of those people making that debate. I think it’s unfair to just simply assume because of my particular faith background that there is some agenda on this book. That would be like saying that a Christian who writes about Muhammad is by definition not able to do so because he has some bias against it. And frankly every book, almost every book that’s out there is by Christians…
Remember what I said way back about Foreshadowing? yea well you just saw some more of it....
Green: He can do so but I believe that you’ve been on several programs and never disclosed that you’re a Muslim, and I think that’s an interest in full disclosure.
And in about 11 more words your about to see Ms. Green actually prove that yes, being a reporter is well outside her personal experience as a Beauty Queen.
Aslan: Ma’am, the second page of my book says I’m a Muslim. Every single interview I have ever done on TV or on print says I’m a Muslim. You may not be familiar with me, but I’m actually quite a prominent Muslim thinker in the United States. I’ve written a number of books about Islam. It’s just simply incorrect to say that media isn’t saying that I’m a Muslim. I would actually encourage you to actually try to find media that doesn’t mention my biography, which by the way, again, is on the second page of the book.
And BOOM!. There is is. First sentence. Yea, she didnt read the book as Mr. Aslan kept guessing at. Which actually explains a lot. Like why the only question about the book she asked about the book itself loosely translated to "so tell me about the book". It also explains why all the criticisms she had were from 3rd parties. It's hard to critique something you dont know anything about.
Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh. Maybe she actually did read the first page. I mean that is kinda standard operating procedure at FOX:
Turned out the part of the Verdict upholding the mandate was on page 2...seriously. |
Although at this point, I must admit, I am now a firm believer in the idea you really shouldnt operate outside your own personal experience, lest your bias show and your professional credentials get challenged. Although I dont think using herself as the example was quite what Ms. Green had in mind.....
Green: All right, Reza, I want to thank you very much for coming on. The book is called “Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.” I want to thank you for coming on “Spirited Debate.” Thank you.
Translation: Shit! I just got outed as being totally clueless about the book. MAYDAY MAYDAY!
Aslan: Thank you.
Translation: "Fuck you". Or "Thank God thats over" I'm not sure which.
Now it turns out their is a silver lining in all this (beyond me having more material to mock FOX with) for Mr. Aslan. Because of this interview his book has shot to the top of Amazon's Best Sellers list. So not only is he making a killing, he also using the free market to prove many people clearly do believe (correctly) that this is a book worth reading that has a lot of new and interesting information and isnt just a Muslim incorrectly commenting on Christianity.
And lets be honest, getting pwoned by the Free Market, is something the republicans at FOX should appreciate and approve of.
Now as a special bonus for those of you who only clicked the link because of the Depeche Mode song, and yet still read thought all of that, here you go:
Aslan: Thank you.
Translation: "Fuck you". Or "Thank God thats over" I'm not sure which.
Now it turns out their is a silver lining in all this (beyond me having more material to mock FOX with) for Mr. Aslan. Because of this interview his book has shot to the top of Amazon's Best Sellers list. So not only is he making a killing, he also using the free market to prove many people clearly do believe (correctly) that this is a book worth reading that has a lot of new and interesting information and isnt just a Muslim incorrectly commenting on Christianity.
And lets be honest, getting pwoned by the Free Market, is something the republicans at FOX should appreciate and approve of.
Now as a special bonus for those of you who only clicked the link because of the Depeche Mode song, and yet still read thought all of that, here you go:
Your Welcome.